Some suggestions from HoW

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Some suggestions from HoW

Postby nukularpower » Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:50 pm

There was old server I played on called Heart of Winter, sort of like DeX I guess (only it's still up, lulz.) I was looking through their change journal while BoW is down, and I hate to say this, but I really think their PvP balance turned out better than BoW's (though there are still rocky areas, of course.) So I'm just putting a few of my favorite changes from that server here. Take them for what they are, just ideas that would obviously need to be adapted to a totally different server, but I think at least a few of these would go a long way towards making things feel less stagnant around here.

- We all know rangers suck in current BoW except for getting csers stealth buffs and dual weild. I like HoW's ranger buffs a lot. Both are dispellable and could possibly make ranger tanks the FoTM again. Obviously numbers would probably not be these on BoW.
1. Blood Frenzy: +2 AB/-1AC EDIT: Forgot rangers cant actually cast this. Could be on that slashing weap spell they get though or something
2. Greater Magic Fang: Applies its bonus to the caster as well as the pet as an AB bonus/Slashing damage bonus. Could be 1/2 rounded up on BoW or something, so +5 becomes +3.

- pure casters get a +4 dc bonus on all spells, pure druids get +8. Specialist wizards get another +4 for +8 as well in their chosen school. Great replacement for those silly miscs, though DW probably wouldn't like everyone taking his build!

- all dual wielders/2handed weapon users gain a +5 shield AC bonus if they don't have monk levels

- Shifter gains an AC bonus equal to wisdom mod in form (to make it possible to pick something but monk)

- WM's get a disc bonus equal to class AB bonus (could turn it into an AC bonus here maybe?)

- monks get no speed bonus. Love/hate that one, but they have kamas on that server, so meh

- Earth domain clerics get double benefit from stoneskin, Energy Buffer, etc. Plant domain clerics and druids get double benefit from Regeneration spells

Those were the ones I liked, aside from the monk speed thing, which is obviously not fitting for BoW. I think the rest of those would do pretty well here, though.
Last edited by nukularpower on Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby akdul2 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:01 pm

i think our misc based casters are better than pure casters.
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby Restos » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:03 pm

Dual wielders/2-handed weapon users should get +6 w/o monk levels. (They only lose the ability to put +stats/+skills/etc like you normally would on 1-handers, IMO this could be awesome).

EDIT: And pure casters is also a great idea. I'm all for getting rid of epic miscs, or re-design them on a different class-dependant way.
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby nukularpower » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:14 pm

Restos wrote:Dual wielders/2-handed weapon users should get +6 w/o monk levels. (They only lose the ability to put +stats/+skills/etc like you normally would on 1-handers, IMO this could be awesome).

EDIT: And pure casters is also a great idea. I'm all for getting rid of epic miscs, or re-design them on a different class-dependant way.


Its only +5 cuz you get +8 from a tower shield, its not supposed to be equal or anything.. just not a total gimp
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby Restos » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:17 pm

You are right. But losing 3 AC will gimp it hard in BoW anyways =(
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby fuzzylilkitten » Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:36 pm

I've suggested the shifter change numerous times, however despite my best efforts, it's been largely ignored :P

I hate monk speed, however I think it's necessary and way too late in the game to remove it.

Would also be strongly against pure mages, it's not something BoW needs.

Also not at all opposed to the blade thirst change. It was mentioned in the ranger thread, and I think the values listed in that thread would be more appropriate for BoW.
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby nukularpower » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:36 pm

I dont think 1 extra AB would help very much. Hell, DD's would still get more AB than rangers with +3, and all that DR to boot.
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby Danko » Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:56 pm

nukularpower wrote:There was old server I played on called Heart of Winter, sort of like DeX I guess (only it's still up, lulz.) I was looking through their change journal while BoW is down, and I hate to say this, but I really think their PvP balance turned out better than BoW's (though there are still rocky areas, of course.) So I'm just putting a few of my favorite changes from that server here. Take them for what they are, just ideas that would obviously need to be adapted to a totally different server, but I think at least a few of these would go a long way towards making things feel less stagnant around here.


HoW ruleset one year ago was a development of DeX taking also some ideas from BoW (especially PDK and HS classes). PvP was fast, now it is completely different without monk speed, 1s autofail and 50% elemental/damage reduction equipment. Copying (that happened all times during NWN history lol), even adapting, is not good if ideas behind the modifies are not understood & purpose is good.

nukularpower wrote:- We all know rangers suck in current BoW except for getting csers stealth buffs and dual weild. I like HoW's ranger buffs a lot. Both are dispellable and could possibly make ranger tanks the FoTM again. Obviously numbers would probably not be these on BoW.
1. Blood Frenzy: +2 AB/-1AC EDIT: Forgot rangers cant actually cast this. Could be on that slashing weap spell they get though or something
2. Greater Magic Fang: Applies its bonus to the caster as well as the pet as an AB bonus/Slashing damage bonus. Could be 1/2 rounded up on BoW or something, so +5 becomes +3.


Blood Frenzy is for druids only. Extended good for shifters otherwise not a great help unless you try to harm (HoW has a fortitude save to halve damage, so it is average 100 negative damage for 35 caster levels meh).

Greater magic fang there works as +5 AB buff, adding +5 magic damage and 5/+5 damage resistance (this one meant to help levelling), progression is +1 each 4 levels until 20. +1 AB each 5 levels and extra magic damage (+4 cap) here should be ok.

nukularpower wrote:- pure casters get a +4 dc bonus on all spells, pure druids get +8. Specialist wizards get another +4 for +8 as well in their chosen school. Great replacement for those silly miscs, though DW probably wouldn't like everyone taking his build!


Pure wizards can mord almost anything (mord may dispel any buff with no renstrictions) so such DC boost becomes relevant. Here DC boosts may happen with some items already. With almost all spells being Full PvP this would be double-edge unless team stacking players. I think this idea is not for BoW.

nukularpower wrote:- all dual wielders/2handed weapon users gain a +5 shield AC bonus if they don't have monk levels


Bonus has been reduced from +6 (1 year ago) to +5 less than 8 months from rangers' AB buff. This is something to be considered, but +5 (instead of shield ofc) is maybe too much here.

nukularpower wrote:- Shifter gains an AC bonus equal to wisdom mod in form (to make it possible to pick something but monk)


This was my idea to increase shifters' variety (DCs based on levels of shifter, e.g. medusa gaze DC = 5 + shifter levels + WIS modifier). WIS AC is given only when shifted, merging system works on its own. Unless PvP shapes are given a specific purpose 1 by 1 this is not necessary (e.g. manticore spikes with increase of magic damage and ranged touch attack pawning sorcs).

nukularpower wrote:- WM's get a disc bonus equal to class AB bonus (could turn it into an AC bonus here maybe?)


Purpose of this one was making non-ED WM dexters playable (e.g. fighter 10 wm 25 hs 5 iKDer). It ended up making all HoW server spamming 'em and WM extra damage got completely removed.

nukularpower wrote:- monks get no speed bonus. Love/hate that one, but they have kamas on that server, so meh


Monk speed... lol would be too long chapter! Monks (and their speed) love PvP, less monks less PvP especially low numbers. People do not know how to counterplay 'em so solution there was having no anti-monk counterlogging and less ragelogs. Weak.

nukularpower wrote:- Earth domain clerics get double benefit from stoneskin, Energy Buffer, etc. Plant domain clerics and druids get double benefit from Regeneration spells


Domains are something to look at... such changes are small but very interesting!
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby nukularpower » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:18 am

Yeah, they were just things I thought were interesting.. nothing to take too seriously.
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Re: Some suggestions from HoW

Postby akdul2 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 4:15 am

we love our monks on bow. really though they aren't much of a problem with capture point style pvp.
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