Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Give your thoughts and ideas.

Moderator: Moderator

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby darkwaffle » Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:35 pm

Rods are hella OP, anything with a greater rod may as well be put on the breach list or the neural evasion wand because it is just so bleeding easy to spam them for perfect immunity.

Another compromise idea I had was to make it so that using a rod to remove an effect doesn't leave the rod buff on the target. Like, if you use clarity to remove a stun, it cures the stun but the target doesn't get to keep the clarity buff as well. it would need to be re applied. A spell for a spell.
goddamn 1s
User avatar
darkwaffle
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby fuzzylilkitten » Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:41 pm

darkwaffle wrote:Another compromise idea I had was to make it so that using a rod to remove an effect doesn't leave the rod buff on the target. Like, if you use clarity to remove a stun, it cures the stun but the target doesn't get to keep the clarity buff as well. it would need to be re applied. A spell for a spell.


I would be all for this.
User avatar
fuzzylilkitten
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:51 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby Restos » Thu Aug 23, 2012 3:30 pm

As NJ said, you guys are not considering the fact while you can cast 2 spells you can only apply 1 buff from a rod =/
User avatar
Restos
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:57 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby nukularpower » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:24 pm

And you aren't considering the fact that you can buy infinite rods, but not infinite spell slots.
nukularpower
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:21 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby fuzzylilkitten » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:34 pm

Might also encourage people to buy saves before buying chaotic/venomous/arch defender, like they should be doing anyway.
User avatar
fuzzylilkitten
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 84
Joined: Tue Jul 24, 2012 2:51 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby darkwaffle » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:43 pm

And you forget that most spells don't even have a 50% success rate. And that you can have almost infinite rods. And that you can use them on all your teammates. And that rods not only cure, but pre-empt spells with 100% success. And that with as few as three different rods you can cure every single spell except fear and stone. And that even highly defensive casters are the most fragile characters on the field. And that every character can reach at least 40 in any given save with the right gear. And most spells aren't instant or effective disables and effect only one character at a time. And numerous classes receive innate flat immunity to numerous important disables.

Casters only work because tanks are lazy. I've done rod support myself plenty of times, its absurdly effective.

Another compromise, make select rods self only.
goddamn 1s
User avatar
darkwaffle
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby Restos » Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:59 pm

The dispel mechanic is the thing that needs fixing first then, IMO. Also, there are plenty of spell slots on gear, plus you can craft more too.
The "infinite rods" argument is not valid for everyone either. While I'm not ignoring the fact that people who kept playing BoW over the years have their characters rich enough to do so, and even then, the same people who build a new character won't be able to afford all types of rods from start, and while getting a bit of money on their new toon, you don't invest heavily into rods right away (or can't). I do agree though, we shouldn't asume everyone is rich to buy infinite rods, players should buy rods accordingly to the fight, and it's their own fault not to buy a FoM against a druid (i.e.).

I understand where you guys are coming from, but you can't deny spellcasters are a very destructive type of character to begin with. Let's not even start talking about ice storm, or similar, because even if dc mages invest on dc spells, they could also spam ice storm to death when they are out of dc spells =/

I'm not against the idea of making rods self-buff only, and to fix the dispel mechanic (which Rainy screwed up heavily) to start, but let's try not to hurt AC tanks (key word: AC) in the process, as I think we all love to play with our tanks. (having 16 levels of bard on every single tank isn't an option).
User avatar
Restos
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 128
Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:57 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby NintendoJesus » Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:56 am

darkwaffle wrote:And you forget that most spells don't even have a 50% success rate. And that you can have almost infinite rods. And that you can use them on all your teammates. And that rods not only cure, but pre-empt spells with 100% success. And that with as few as three different rods you can cure every single spell except fear and stone. And that even highly defensive casters are the most fragile characters on the field. And that every character can reach at least 40 in any given save with the right gear. And most spells aren't instant or effective disables and effect only one character at a time. And numerous classes receive innate flat immunity to numerous important disables.

Casters only work because tanks are lazy. I've done rod support myself plenty of times, its absurdly effective.

Another compromise, make select rods self only.



Greater Rods don't make bad tanks suddenly good. If they didn't buy freedom rods or clarity rods before, they won't buy them now that they cost 3 times as much.

Also, although I totally understand what you're saying, I don't think you're taking into consideration choices that you have made that requires tanks to be lazy. For example, you call casters the "most fragile character on the field," and yet you have access to arguably the single best defensive ability or spell in the game(so much that it has required multiple nerfs), you just choose not to use it. You also make it seem like the only option you have to be effective as a mage is to disable tanks, this is also only true because you make it so.

So having said that, let me ask you this: If I wanted to play a tank that doesn't use a shield(gsanct) or IKD(every other spell you have access to), then am I to expect that the rest of the server is to be balanced around me because I choose to gimp myself? No, of course not, you would laugh me off the forums, and rightfully so.

So, like I said, I understand where your coming from, but I don't find any reason not to put in a quality of life change for every character on BoW simply because your self gimped mage would be marginally worse vs good tanks.
NintendoJesus
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:01 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby darkwaffle » Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:15 am

GS is a red herring, this isn't about staying alive this is about what you can do while you're alive. And the best defensive abilities in the game is a bar none tie between stealth and heal skill lol.

Let's pretend tanks had to deal with rods too. Imagine if we had rods that granted perfect immunity to dev, curse, ikd, taunt and sneak attack. And they all cost less than 20k. And then we said that, well even though they're already ridiculously powerful tools, let's triple the number of casts a character can get of each of those buffs because only having one of each is a little annoying. Do you want to deal with that? Because that's effectively what rods do to casters. They completely nullify every ability, feat, and skill you invest into.

Man you give me greater rods of freedom and karis may as well bank his druid when I show up, it allows single characters to have buff support that far surpasses even dedicated support casters. And it is oh so easy to protect almost your entire team when you've got so many uses (I already do with PFA and restore). I mean do you really want to encourage even more ice and dragon spam? Because when you're impervious to everything else because "I've got a rod for that" that's almost all that's left.

What makes it a quality of life change anyway? I'd consider it a quality of life change if I could recast all my important defensive spells from rods to, but that definitely aint happening.
goddamn 1s
User avatar
darkwaffle
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 72
Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Re: Greater Rod of XXXXXX

Postby NintendoJesus » Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:14 am

Because you and I and anyone worth their salt already have rods for all of those things.

I have 15 freedom rods on my bard, it would be nice to have 5 to cover the same thing. The effect that has on Karis' druid is zero, I don't have them quick-slotted. If he gets me, it will be between rod uses. The amount of rods involved is irrelevant. And to say that there is some person out there, who by having 3 casts per rod instead of 1 will suddenly be able to deal with stonehold and entangle when he wasn't able to before is just silly. My WM can't cast PFA, nobody is running around giving it out for free just because there are 3 casts of it on his rod. l0l

I will ALWAYS be able to buy more rods than you can dispel, on every character. No character is so limited by bag space that he can't buy 25 freedom rods if he/she wants.

If you want rods removed or their use altered, fine, we can have that discussion, but to say that consolidating rods will have some huge negative effect on casters is exaggerated at best. If effies were still in the game, then your argument would hold more water. But nobody is going to buy enough rods to go around "rod supporting" his team. And even if he did, he'd be a massive waste of PR. Clarity rods are practically free and the number of people who have ever cast them on a stunned teammate far less than those who have. Most people just don't care enough, and having 2 more casts per rod at 5 times the cost isn't going to suddenly make them a better teammate. Instead, they will sell all their rods so they can afford Chaotic and Venemous sooner, then when they get to 8 million xp, they might buy a few rods, or they might buy even more casts or Chaotic Frenzy, its a toss up. Hell, we can barely get people to buy helmets and haste these days and you're really worried about whether or not you'll have tanks to disable? And believe me, I have no intention of wasting an entire round to remove dominate from Metal Santa. You're far more likely to be counter logged by a cleric or 15 other casters, or be teamswaMped. That fact alone speaks volumes about the phantom "weakness" of casters that you would have us believe exists.

I guess what it comes down to is, even IF all of your doomsday predictions were to come true, then so be it, caster PR has never reflected their true effect on a given round. There is a reason everyone complains when someone logs a caster, of any kind, even druids. As misguided as he may be, there is a reason Awet feels the need to teamswamp casters at the drop of a hat. It's not because they suck, I can promise you that. It's not because they are underpowered and need help.

When you get mad about a round, you don't build switch to a strength tank, no no no, you log a mage, or a bard, or a druid, or a cleric. Now why do you think that is?

And I can promise you, beyond a shadow of doubt, that Greater Rods will not change that.
NintendoJesus
Keeper of War
 
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 4:01 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Suggestion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron